https://www.reddit.com/r/ShambhalaBuddhism/comments/bb2l0m/ama_with_carol_merchasin_april_11_800900_pm/
Carol Merchasin will join us to “answer anything.” Please be clear that Ms. Merchasin has no affiliation with Shambhala and has never been employed by Shambhala. Most recently, Ms. Merchasin published a final report, which can be found on this sub here.
Bio: Carol Merchasin is a retired lawyer and former partner in the Philadelphia office of Morgan, Lewis and Bockius, a 2200 lawyer global law firm, where she was the director of Morgan Lewis Resources, providing training and investigation services to clients. Ms. Merchasin is an experienced investigator into workplace misconduct issues, and she has conducted dozens of workplace investigations, including those involving sensitive allegations made against top level executives.
In addition, Carol has developed and taught courses on investigative techniques to human resource professionals at many Fortune 500 companies. She was the lead author of the book, Case Dismissed: Taking Your Harassment Training to Trial, published by the American Bar Association.
Links of interest: If you would like to catch up on the topics referenced in many of the questions, here are links to the Buddhist Project Sunshine reports, and to Ms. Merchasin's own reports:
All of Andrea's BPS work can be found here - there are direct links to the phase 1-3 reports about halfway down the page: http://andreamwinn.com/offerings/bps-welcome-page/
Carol's reflection's on Wickwire Holm Report: https://www.buddhistprojectsunshine.org/single-post/2019/02/05/Reflections-on-the-Wickwire-Holms-Report---A-Message-from-Carol-Merchasin
Carol's final report on BPS: https://www.buddhistprojectsunshine.org/single-post/2019/04/08/Final-Report-on-the-Buddhist-Project-Sunshine-Investigations---Carol-Merchasin
Note: Please do not post comments and opinions on this thread. The thread is reserved for questions. Please post your questions at the top level so they don’t become buried.
Merchasin's verification: This is a great picture. Please click through or click the camera icon to view: https://imgur.com/gallery/lvWk3pR
April 11, 7:45 pm Eastern: Hello! Can't wait to get started. We will begin in 15 minutes. Ms. Merchasin will start with the questions that are already posted. The thread will be open until 9 pm for new questions. At 9 pm I will close comments on the thread.
Please keep your questions at the top level, so they don’t get lost. Follow up questions are good too. Please feel free to add those in reply to her responses. As always, please stay away from flames and ad hom. If I see anything that is purely flame or ad hom, I will delete it. Otherwise, I’ll stay out.
96 Comments
Give Award
Share
Save
Hide
Report
90% Upvoted
This thread has been locked by the moderators of r/ShambhalaBuddhism
New comments cannot be posted
SORT BY
NEW (SUGGESTED)
level 1
rubbishaccount88
Call me Ra
14 points
·
17 hours ago
In your entire arc of conduct from the beginning through this very AMA, you have been one of the most extraordinary examples of grace, bravery and intelligence I've ever seen. No question. Just another thank you so very much.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
16 points
·
16 hours ago
I can not tell you how much that means to me. Everyone involved in this mess has struggled mightily and the thing that has sustained me and I think the others has been the swift and strong response of this community. So back at you....
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
AbbeyStrict
9 points
·
16 hours ago
I just want to thank you as well, you have done such tremendous good in your work, helped so many people, especially the most vulnerable. You are a beacon of truth and justice.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
thebasketofeggs
7 points
·
16 hours ago
Second, and thanks to you too, Ra, for setting this up.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
FarSwan3
5 points
·
17 hours ago
Hi Carol,
Thank you so much for all of your work.
A friend posted your recent report on Sangha Talk on the Shambhala Network two days ago, but surprisingly it has so far only received one comment. I will try posting it differently so that more people are aware of it. I am afraid that people are becoming tired of looking at the situation anymore. This is unfortunate since your report seems to me to be much more complete than the WH report.
I was surprised to find out that you had also published something in February. Somehow with all the revelations, I was not aware of it. I forget how the BPS project ended up in all of our mailboxes, but yours did not.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
7 points
·
17 hours ago
I agree with you that we get overwhelmed and have fatigue over these issues. Another factor is that many people have already left the sangha and moved on. I appreciate your willingness to post it again on Sangha Talk and I think that the link to the piece I wrote in February is above on this thread.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Cashoobutter
3 points
·
17 hours ago
thank you!
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
TrimeTak
3 points
·
17 hours ago
Are you still in contact with the claimants? If anyone wanted to reach out to them, to offer support or an apology, would that be appropriate? And if so how would one contact them? And lastly, are they safe, do they have support systems? Thank you for considering my garage of questions. Thank you for everything.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
thebasketofeggs
4 points
·
17 hours ago
Here is the Shambhala apology. It's beautiful... You can post an apology here.
https://shambhala-apology.com/
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
6 points
·
17 hours ago
I thank you for your garage! Because really you raise the most important thing. What are we doing for survivors? I am in contact with them, yes. And as to reaching out and an apology, I wonder if our moderator could later post the link for the apology that has been making the rounds. You can sign and you can add your own comments and they will get it. It has, I think, been helpful for them to know that many members of the community of thinking of their well being as you have here. Nothing has come out of Shambhala which is a real indication to me that it is going to be very difficult for them going forward.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
thebasketofeggs
5 points
·
17 hours ago
We are at the end of the hour. Ms. Merchasin has generously offered to stick around to answer the questions that were posted right before the hour, but we aren't taking new questions at this point...
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
dellarite61
4 points
·
17 hours ago
Thank you.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
GreenwayDance
2 points
·
17 hours ago
How did you conduct your investigations? Did you visit the different jurisdictions and meet witnesses directly face to face? Have you interacted with any State or National investigators? As there are different states where these events are alleged to have occured - isn't that part of the FBI's remit? Have you called on the many resources the government provides to investigate and provided copies of the evidence you have collected?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
Do you mean in this investigation? The way I conduct investigations is to first frame the question and then look at everything that I might need to answer that question. So if the question is: did the Sakyong assault a woman in Chile in 2002? then I look for any documents that might point me toward answering that question. The internet is a wonderful resource for a lot of thing. I did interviews entirely by the Zoom video conference. All of the survivors are in different locations so the travel would have been enormous. For my work, I rarely interact with federal or state investigators as all of it is private.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
CheredeDarievea
7 points
·
17 hours ago
When the Wickwire Holm investigation was ongoing I looked up Selina Bath's CV and noticed that she is a trained workplace abuse investigator. Needless to say, the allegations against Shambhala are not typical "workplace" infractions, and involve a whole layer of vajrayana power dynamic that is absent in the workplace. Do you think that WH was an appropriate choice for the investigation? After all, Nova Scotia is no stranger to clergy sex abuse, and there must be law firms there that specialize in that.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
8 points
·
17 hours ago
Yes, interesting. Of course, I didn't really think about that because I am a workplace investigator and while the vajrayana and samaya issues are foreign to the workplace, I think I felt that it would translate. But now I am not sure. I certainly share your concern about the ability to understand the dynamics and particularly as it related to Ann. So, perhaps it wasn't.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Virginia_Buddhist
2 points
·
17 hours ago
Thanks Carol for all your hard work to bring to light the abuses of power and potential criminal acts by Mr Mukpo and others within SI. Thanks also for the tremendous empathy you have shown to the brave survivors who stepped forward. I have followed your work on this issue closely since last summer. It seems to me the way the old Kalapa Council and the IB have approached this controversy is designed entirely to protect Mr Mukpo and minimize the allegations of the survivors. I contrast that with the approach the Rigpa board took toward similar allegations against Sogyal Rinpoche, which appeared to be designed to get to the root of the problem and to give the survivors who stepped forward as much support as possible. Do you think this assessment is accurate? In your opinion, is there anything the broader Shambhala community ought to be doing to urge the IB to better act in the interest of the organization rather then protecting the perpetrators?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
5 points
·
17 hours ago
As to the Rigpa situation, I am not familiar enough with the actions taken to say that they supported survivors and wanted to get to the root of the problem -- that may be true, I just don't know.
As to what to do? I would put pressure on the IB in whatever ways you can to answer the questions in one of the posts below. Are they going to implement the AOB? Do they have the power? As I understand it, they are in power for a year and then the Sakyong can come back and reverse everything they may (or may not) change. Is that true? I would want to support them in coming to some hard decisions and being absolutely truthful to the community. Truth is the most important thing. That builds trust. If they cannot be truthful, I wonder what is left worth saving.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
4 points
·
17 hours ago
Thank you for your thank you! I appreciate it and I appreciate from all of you who have said that. Now, to your question. I agree that to my way of thinking the old Kalapa Council and the IB have approached this to protect and not with the level of transparency that they need. This is certainly understandable since they have taken a loyalty oath to the Sakyong and the lineage. How could we expect them to do something differently?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Cashoobutter
2 points
·
17 hours ago
You investigated abuses committed by the current Shambhala leader Osel Mipham . I am wondering if through this process you were able to get a sense about his father Trungpa and any connections to abuses from his era?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
2 points
·
17 hours ago
I have certainly heard about these and have for many years. But I have not, and did not feel that I could investigate, due to the passage of time and the inability to interview him and perhaps many others. So, no, I probably only know what you know already!
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
TrimeTak
2 points
·
17 hours ago
As for mandatory reporters, what about an adult's right to choose whether an assault is reported or not and to whom? This allows the person some control, and in fact, perhaps the only point of control is the decision to report or not. After that, a whole string of things could follow that is beyond the person's control. It would be better perhaps to have leaders take the responsibility to reach out to the victim and offer support, offering him/her/they support and accountability. What do you think?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
Yes, I see what you are saying and I agree -- to some extent. Let me tell you how it happens in the workplace. Because it is exactly as you say, out of the person's control and it doesn't always work out for the better. At work, if someone sees you being harassed, assaulted, etc. they may have to report whether you want them to or not. So in that sense, the workplace requires mandatory reporting, at least if you are a manger. I get that doesn't always work out well and it definitely makes it beyond the victim's control. But I have also seen the "let's reach out to victims and offer support" be a disaster. I think for example that what happened in 2011 followed that script. People kept reaching out -- granted, with no possibility of a resolution. I think the "reach out and offer support" requires a lot of training and a strong culture of no tolerance to make it work. What do you think?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
I don't know that the concept of "mandatory reporters" applies to adults. I only know it in relationship to children. Do you know of a state that requires mandatory reporting for adult sexual assault?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
thebasketofeggs
3 points
·
17 hours ago
I'm a mandatory reporter for sexual harassment, assault, gender discrimination, under my university's (misguided) interpretations of Title IX. My students are adults.
Edit: Actually, the terminology is "responsible employee." Means the same.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 4
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
16 hours ago
Yes, I see exactly the same in the workplace (and also universities where I also do work). It is dilemma for sure. Anyone who is a manager in the US workplace is in a sense a mandatory reporter.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
thebasketofeggs
2 points
·
17 hours ago
·
edited 17 hours ago
Sensing a lull... I have a question that I think might be interesting...
I think of how much expertise you have and how you seemed to appear like a guardian angel. But the fact of the matter is, no center would be able to afford your services. Many don't even pay their directors. Now, it is evident there has been significant hording of money at the top, but out at the individual centers, there isn't any money. Just enough to pay rent. So what do organizations like local meditation centers do to make sure they have competent people in place. Maybe not people with your level of expertise, but if all you have to work with are the random people who come to meditate, how do you keep from having serious holes in the support that's available? It seems like there could have been some prevention if we'd been listening to people who knew what they were doing. Or if we could do so going forward.... (I keep saying we, but it's not we anymore. I left. They... Obviously I still care...)
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
Such a difficult question. And yes, a parallel situation is legal services for poor people, not just poor organizations. I wonder if within all of the mandala of Shambhala they might identify -- for example -- a cadre of people who could do investigations. Because as I mentioned down below, if you ask people to report misconduct, you have to investigate that report. You can't just say well, yes, or well, no. So maybe there are some pockets of volunteer expertise, not just investigations, but all kinds of things, like trauma experts, conflict management, that could be centralized and farmed out to centers from within the organization. But nothing works, if culture doesn't change. That's the first thing.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
And people can be trained to do these specialized things. And also importantly, money has apparently been worded at the top when it should have been invested in creating a stronger environment.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 4
thebasketofeggs
2 points
·
17 hours ago
Do you know who does this well in terms of organizing volunteers? I want to say maybe Quakers?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 5
CarolMerchasin
2 points
·
16 hours ago
Hmm. I wouldn't have thought of the Quakers, I would have maybe thought of non-profits. But maybe that is not a good comparator?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
CarolMerchasin
4 points
·
17 hours ago
But even if we close at 9:00 I will get all posted questions answered.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
thebasketofeggs
3 points
·
17 hours ago
Thank you... that's very generous.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
So, folks, I have two devices going -- a function of being in Mexico with slow and uncertain internet at this moment. So if it takes me a bit to answer, have patience!
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
newclee
3 points
·
17 hours ago
Thank you for making yourself available. I am wondering, do you think SMR will ever be charged with a criminal offence? Do you feel it would be better for those who were harmed by him to sue him in civil court? Several countries involved.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
CarolMerchasin
5 points
·
17 hours ago
The question of whether he will ever be charged criminally is difficult for me to answer, because it is completely the decision of the survivor involved. But if you are asking me (or would like to ask me) is it possible? Then yes, the answer is yes it is possible. In Nova Scotia because the assault happened in Nova Scotia.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
BoneStar85
5 points
·
17 hours ago
In your response to Cashoobutter's question, you mentioned that you've learned about the issues of trauma and dealing with people who have had trauma. Could you share some of what you've learned? Could you share especially what you've learned that people who've had trauma need--from their institution, from the perpetrator, and from their communities? We are trying to make this subreddit community a space that will be as supportive as possible for survivors (as supportive as is possible in a public online forum), and I'd love to hear any of your insights into what might be helpful vs. harmful. Thank you again for your work, service, and courage.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
6 points
·
17 hours ago
NICABN.com The Treating Trauma Master Series. Free. Might have some interesting approach. I have found Dick Schwartz to be very insightful in other areas of psychology.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
CarolMerchasin
6 points
·
17 hours ago
https://www.nicabm.com/program/aff-treating-trauma-master-4/?ap_id=681847&del=affemail&utm_source=681847&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2036
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
7 points
·
17 hours ago
One of the sources that has been helpful to me is the research that is being done on institutional betrayal. If you look up Jennifer Freyd you will see a treasure trove of what I have found to be very practical information on how institutions need to do a better job of responding. What I personally found? That survivors of trauma need to respond in their own time, not mine, their own way, not mine, that they are not always consistent (a fact which I wished Ms. Bath had known when she interviewed Ann and that they are all having different journeys. Check out also Richard Schwartz now doing a free class on trauma. I will look up the contact info and post it in a minute.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
GreenwayDance
3 points
·
18 hours ago
·
edited 17 hours ago
Hi Carol,
Thank you for taking the time to make yourself available to us, especially when all your work into the BPS reports must have been exhausting!!
I hope you can read through my questions as something in BPS3 has raised some extremely worrying points and I hope you understand how concerned I am as to the importance of protecting the most vulnerable in society.
Having read through the various reports, I see the very most egregious allegations are not limited by the Statute of Limitations, specifically in BPS3 quote:
“Allegation #2: Ann alleges first-hand knowledge of underage girls being brought to the Sakyong for sex at SMC
The allegation that underage girls were brought for sexual encounters with the Sakyong, if true, is a criminal offense with no statute of limitations.”
Indeed, such an allegation must and would be investigated by the police wherever it occurs, irrespective of when it took place.
Treaties are international – meaning if such an crime happened in 1960’s in New York, and in 2018 the crime is revealed but the perpetrator has moved to Australia, surely all that is required is a submission of the judicial papers and a request for extradition?
So, have the police been notified, and when?
Given that BPS3 alleges:
“During the summers of 2004-2005, Ann worked in the Sakyong’s household at SMC. Where she was working, Ann had a clear view of the people who came to wait for their appointments with the Sakyong. Ann saw lots of people come, but she began to notice that there were parents bringing young teenage girls. The girls seemed nervous. The parents occasionally said something like, “This is such an honor for you to have this experience.” Then a kusung would come for the girl and the parents would leave. Ann worked directly below the Sakyong’s bedroom and since there was no air conditioning, in the summer the windows were open. Ann could hear what sounded distinctly like sexual encounters.
Ann worried about this. She asked several kusung, “What’s going on with these young girls?” They always said the same thing. ”There is nothing for you to worry about. But she did worry because she knew what it was like to be a child used for sex. She knew what she saw and what she heard through those windows.”
You then wrote “I cannot investigate this allegation. The information that Ann has would have to go to the District Attorney in Larimer County, Colorado.”
The allegation here – the implication is so serious that there is no statute of limitations, it transcends jurisdictional boundaries and the police are duty bound to investigate, and to bring to account surely?
Also, as you wrote in your final report, “It is axiomatic in an investigation that all reports of wrong-doing should be investigated, even if anonymous.”
I assume that means the police would also investigate anonymous reports – indeed they have been known to do so.
So here’s the big question –
If you believe you have evidence, or you know someone that has evidence of multiple crimes of rape of underage children and it has not been reported to the police, surely that might be perceived as covering up, complicity or enablement?
Especially when these allegations are said to have taken place 15 years ago - that’s 15 years worth of potential victims? And when there is nothing to stop the police from investigation it today?
Surely these underage children will be in their mid to late 20’s now, and there is a record of participants at these programs to help the police find any victims?
As I said, I hope you understand how concerned I am as to the importance of protecting the most vulnerable in society.
As an Attorney, you will have the expertise to convince the police to conduct a thorough investigation about these extremely serious allegations.
As I understand it, before reparations or penalty for any alleged crime can be demanded, it needs to be proven in a court of law first, and the court has all the powers it needs to summon records, witnesses and so on, to find these victims?
Has this happened?
Thank you in anticipation of your answer.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
Browndogfoot
2 points
·
17 hours ago
You are correct. These allegations that involve minor children have NO or in some cases, very long statute of limitations. In this case, the police in Larimer County have opened an investigation. And that is where this stands right now as far as I know. So yes, the police investigate as they are doing and if they find probable cause to prosecute, all of those powers you describe are available.
And I imagine (I am not a criminal lawyer) but I would guess that failing to report such underage sexual encounters would be a violation of some laws if it could be proved.
I hope this helps.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
GreenwayDance
2 points
·
17 hours ago
When was it reported? 2004 / 2005 or recently, and is there a crime reference number?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 4
Virginia_Buddhist
2 points
·
17 hours ago
The Larimer County Sheriff's Office began investigating allegations of sex with minors last fall. The detectives working the case indicated it may take several years to reach a conclusion.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 4
Browndogfoot
2 points
·
17 hours ago
It was reported recently after August. I do not know that there is a reference number but it is within the Larimer Country Sheriff’s office.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
true___lies
2 points
·
18 hours ago
What happened to the Ann's story on BPS 3 report? originally it was an extensive story on how Orsel Mukpo had some sort of group sex with Ann and so forth with a lot of disgusting details. it seems like the original story has been scrubbed from BPS 3 (http://andreamwinn.com/project_sunshine/Buddhist_Project_Sunshine_Phase_3_Final_Report.pdf) Now it only has names of supposed perpetrators.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
I don't know about being "scrubbed" from BPS 3 but what I just reported in my Final Report was that a witness came forward who described similar conduct that she had witnessed from the Sakyong that was not an invitation to group sex but rather a "cruel joke" or taunting. If you go to the Final Report you can read it there. It is the first numbered paragraph.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
dellarite61
3 points
·
18 hours ago
I'd like clarification on your use of the phrase, "It appears that..." Does this mean it is your opinion?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
17 hours ago
Yes. I try to be precise about what I feel is a "finding" which means that it is more likely than not true and what is my opinion. Where did I use it and I can tell you for sure.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
dellarite61
2 points
·
17 hours ago
Thank you. "It appears that the Interim Board did not want to know the answers to a number of questions."
How can proof be revealed that they ARE avoiding the truth or covering up the truth. How do we prove it?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
CarolMerchasin
4 points
·
18 hours ago
Hi, everyone. I am happy to be here and answer all of your questions. I have put in most of the answers to the questions that were posted in advance but while you are looking at those I will post the rest of my answers.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Comment removed by moderator
1 day ago
level 1
lilydrum
3 points
·
1 day ago
·
edited 20 hours ago
what do you think of the Sakyong's current position and his relation he is having with his students? Asking us about our commitments and samayas, without any clarification on behalf of himself how he is doing and what his path of healing and ammending is?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
10 points
·
18 hours ago
I am not a Vajrayana student and so I can only give you one side to this story. I would never study with the Sakyong unless he was able to “practice what he preaches.” But there are Vajrayana students who feel differently.
And that’s ok with me. My objective all along has been for people to understand the truth or something as close to the truth as possible and then make the decisions that are best for them. So, if people still want to study with the Sakyong, then that is their business.
What I do not find useful is the “word salad” that has gone on around this issue. The Sakyong is stepping down, he is stepping back “from…teaching and administrative duties,” but wait, the Sakyong is teaching Vajrayana students, the Acharyas, are not still loyal to the Sakyong, oh but that was a misunderstanding, they are. There will be no ‘business as usual’, but yes, there is ‘business as usual’ and you can come to the Scorpion Seal. The communications that come out of Shambhala International seem disingenuous at worst and at best confused.
I wish that someone at SI would just straight up say,
“Look, we don’t feel like we can have a community without the Sakyong. We have a samaya vow with him, he owns the copyrights and whatever else it is that constrains us, and we just can’t go on without him. So, if you can deal with that, if you can deal with the fact that he probably will never hold himself accountable and we can’t make him do anything that he doesn’t want to do, then please stay with us.”
I am perfectly fine with that. Because then you know. You make an informed decision that works for you. I have a sense now that the communications are walking a fine line between remorse that is not genuine because they need to say something so that more people don’t leave but they can’t exactly say the straight up truth. Needless to say, the thing that needs to happen here is rebuilding trust and that can’t happen when there is no transparency.
As for clarification on what he is doing and what his path of healing is – I wish he would do that. But if the future looks like the past (which it sometimes does) I would not expect that to come anytime soon.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Comment removed by moderator
1 day ago
level 2
Comment removed by moderator
1 day ago
level 3
Comment removed by moderator
1 day ago
level 1
TharpaKunga
6 points
·
1 day ago
What in your view should Shambhala do - a set of requirements, say - to show that the organization is serious about reform and putting this story behind it? An A, B and C perhaps that the outfit can be assessed against and maybe held to.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
8 points
·
18 hours ago
Well, I would go directly to the AOB recommendations. I love your idea of using something as a measure of progress, of accountability. So here are a few of the critical ones:
Public Response: Apologize! Hold the Sakyong accountable and tell us specifically how you will hold him accountable going forward. Everything starts here.
Tell us what you do and do not have the power or the will to do in implementing the AOB recommendations. Let the community know exactly what the obstacles are.
Leaders must end the culture that has allowed sexual abuse and abuse of power to go unpunished. To do this, the current teachers and leaders who knew, should have known and either covered up or did nothing, should be held accountable. Otherwise, you are rebuilding Shambhala with the same mindset that allowed this mess to begin with and you are losing trust with the community.
Separate the spiritual and governing parts of the organization. The Sakyong should not have the power that he has had. Can the IB do that? Can they have non-Shambhala members of the Board as has been recommended? Tell the community.
Enact a new Code of Ethics policy that includes the Sakyong and train people on it.
Enable the Care and Conduct body to revoke the teaching credentials of those teachers who are found to have violated the policy. To do this, I will mention, you must have people who are independent and capable of doing an investigation into the allegations that are made. The prior system of forced mediation is archaic and wrong.
Remake the Care and Conduct Committee.
There are others. But to my mind, these are the most critical.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
VajraDr
7 points
·
1 day ago
·
edited 1 day ago
Do you think Mr. Mipham is at meaningful risk of criminal charges for the historical acts that have come to light? Do you think that he, and/or the Shambhala community, are at meaningful risk of civil suits? Do you have a sense of how the risks of criminal or civil proceedings may have shaped the behaviour of the organization since Project Sunshine (e.g. communications that say very little, caginess about harms and culpability)?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
5 points
·
18 hours ago
The legal issue to understand here is that there are statutes of limitations in the US that govern how long you can wait before making a claim, both criminal and civil. There is a different statute of limitations generally for child sexual abuse and it is often longer than for adults. In this case, to the best of my knowledge (I am not a criminal lawyer), the only criminal charge could be from the survivor of the 2011 assault because it happened in Nova Scotia and Nova Scotia has an open ended statute of limitations. There may be other assaults that happened in more recent years that I am not aware of, but based on what I know right now, that is the criminal side.
Of course, there has been, according to the AOB report a lot of sexual misconduct that is not related to the Sakyong. There are criminal investigations going on in Colorado and in Vermont and perhaps other places that I am not aware of that could lead to criminal charges against other people.
And yes, as a lawyer, I understand that the risks of criminal conduct may limit what you want to say. That is a reality. But I have also many, many, times seen this – when you do not come clean, when you do not take responsibility, hold yourself accountable, the people who have been harmed begin to look elsewhere for “justice.” We have only to look at the Catholic Church to see how that plays out.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Quiddity70
3 points
·
1 day ago
Do you have names for teachers other than smr who have specifically been named as being filly aware/present and/or actual perpetrators? Have they been approached and given an option perhaps to clear their names and/or allow the accusations to be publicized? Do you not feel that such information as X current teachers were approached concerning their reported involvemnt and of those Y refused to let their names be published, and Z refused to even answer allegations would be a useful metric?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
18 hours ago
As to the names of teachers (and leaders) I have named only those teachers or leaders that I have either substantial corroboration for their knowledge of misconduct or they have already admitted their knowledge of misconduct. I did this in my reports in July and August and I haven’t noticed anyone coming forward with any statement of either denial or accountability. Not true – I just remembered that Ethan Nichtern did (although I did not name him as a person who had specific knowledge of misconduct). I don’t have his letter in front of me but I remember thinking at the time, that he provided a road map for others. But to my knowledge, there haven’t been others. Perhaps the IB and other teachers and leaders need to take his letter and use it as a model of what needs to happen.
So, yes, I think absolutely that teachers and leaders who knew about misconduct should be approached and given an opportunity to take accountability or tell why not. This should have been part of the WH investigation but it wasn’t. I think that the Interim Board as part of their responsibility to rebuild trust with the community can and should do that. As I understand it, the Board does have the power to remove teachers.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
thebasketofeggs
3 points
·
1 day ago
·
edited 1 day ago
Having read your final report, and having had a chance to sit with it for a few days, I have a couple questions:
The person who witnessed Ann kneeling in front of Mipham referenced other times they had seen Mipham doing the same thing to other women. I guess exposing himself or "stroking" himself in such a way that the woman was aware of it but others in the room were not. How many times did they see this?
Further, just to be clear, what this witness says is that Mipham was in the habit of exposing himself in this semi-covert way, and also that what he was doing to Ann was purposely torturing her mentally? Is that a correct reading of your report?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
18 hours ago
She cannot remember how many times she saw this stroking, exposing behavior. At least a few times and yes, her statement was that from her perspective it was a form of torturing and that he was in the habit of doing it. And yes, this woman was aware of it and the men to her knowledge were not – or at least never raised it with her. And yes, to Greenway Dance, to the best of her recollection, this woman was not present at the incident that “Ann” reported, she was simply coming forward to say that she felt that Ann possibly misinterpreted the meaning of the actions
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
GreenwayDance
3 points
·
1 day ago
Perhaps this could be clarified as it appears the person was not a witness to any of the alleged events specific to "Ann"? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Kilimahewa
8 points
·
2 days ago
Can you say more about Shambhala threatening BPS with legal action in the early stages? What exactly happened?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
12 points
·
18 hours ago
Toward the end of April when it was clear that no one on the Kalapa Council would speak to Andrea about the issues of sexual misconduct, the Kalapa Council suggested that we enter mediation. I was familiar enough with the mediation process that I knew that we could not mediate sexual assault claims, but I thought that once the Kalapa Council received the information that we had – that there were three women making credible claims of sexual assault against the Sakyong – that they would certainly want to do what we were asking -- which was to commission an independent 3rd party investigation and have the Sakyong step down during the pendency of the investigation.
We met with the mediator on May 24, 2018 and we gave her our information. What came back to us from the Kalapa Council were lies. We were told that they were “not able to imagine that kind of thing” and that “that is just not the kind of man the Sakyong is.” Of course, what we now know is that they were aware of the 2011 assault in 2011 (because they said so in a giant conference call that was transcribed).
Eventually on June 24th on the telephone, the mediator conveyed the message that if we published the report Shambhala would take “any and all available action” against Andrea and me. I am a lawyer, I am certainly familiar with threats of legal action, but I can tell you truthfully that I was taken aback. That was on a Sunday and on Monday, we got a lawyer who took us on and led us through the entire process.
I want to point out that the threat of legal action came from people who absolutely knew that what the women were saying about the Sakyong was true. I also want to say that during the time between the meeting with the mediator (May 24, 2018) and the day Andrea published the first investigation report (June 28, 2018) I tried many times to set up a call with the Kalapa Council and an associate attorney in Alex Halpern’s office. That never happened.
The Kalapa Council members are not the only ones whose loyalty to the Sakyong at any price led them to lie. A kusung on duty the night of the 2011 assault, the night of the Sakyong’s daughter’s birthday party, told me he knew absolutely nothing about any inappropriate behavior by the Sakyong -- he could not even imagine anything like that. In other words, the woman was lying.
Months later, I tracked down a person who told me he had met with this kusung a few days after the assault and the kusung told him, “The Sakyong fucked up big time the night of the birthday party.” This is the lengths to which people were willing to go. They had no choice – apparently their loyalty to the Sakyong required this. The lying is endemic. I heard that a teacher at a Shambhala retreat insisted that I have been disbarred – I suppose as a way to try to soothe herself into believing that this troubling information could not be true.
The level of disregard for the allegations and the confidence that Shambhala had that the damage could be contained reached a peak when one prominent Shambhala leader, the only one who spoke to me, told me that “only 10% of the community will read your report anyway.” It is hard for me to know what to call that attitude. Cynical? Insulting?
Oh yes, a bad prediction.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
drala1008
9 points
·
2 days ago
·
edited 2 days ago
Can you tell us more about the 2002 incident back in Chile? As a former member, hearing about this incident made me so doubtful and it triggered my process of leaving Shambhala... Do you know why the affected person did not want to make a statement? Is she ok now? I have read your last message ( April 8) but if you could, please share more about your perspective in this particular case. Thanks.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
10 points
·
18 hours ago
Yes, this was a shocking incident. This was also an incident for which there was considerable corroboration so even a cursory investigation would have had to conclude that it happened.
The reason that the Chilean woman did not want to make a statement was a general sense that the process was dishonest. There did not seem to be any willingness among the Shambhala leader’s to acknowledge that Shambhala needed to set up the investigation in a particular way in order to build trust.
For example, it was initially set up so that the Sakyong’s lawyer would receive the Investigation Report. This felt like ignorance of the role that perception plays in an investigation if you want women to come forward.
Steve Suflas, the lawyer for the Kalapa Council emphasized that there was no need for an independent monitor, and that everything was being done according to the guidelines of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. But because there was no independent monitor, people are left with questions about what the IB did, or more accurately, didn’t do and what they are or are not trying to hide.
Thank you for asking about the woman in Chile. She is good, actually. She is an amazing person!
What I said in my final report is this: I do not know what the limitations were that the Interim Board placed on the investigation, but I believe someone placed limitations on the investigation. And I am not talking about all limitations: I understand that the WH investigation was specifically to focus on the allegations of sexual assault against the Sakyong and no one else. That is a limitation that I at least understand. When I am called in to investigate I have a limited scope also. I am not just asked to come in and investigate anything that strikes my fancy. I usually have a question to answer: Did the Sakyong sexually assault a woman in Chile in 2002? In that, I would have no restrictions.
I have read someone else’s account that Ms. Bath was not permitted to investigate any incidents where there were no witnesses. I do not know if that is true. But I do know that Ms. Bath started to investigate the Chilean assault. I know she spoke to people who had knowledge. What I don’t know and what you should want to know, is what happened?
It also seems like she was not permitted to investigate the complicity of leaders. That to me is a huge oversight. I don’t see how anyone can think that you can remake Shambhala into a healthy organization without holding the parts that are unhealthy to account.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
DaveLind
8 points
·
2 days ago
At what point in your research and investigation work did you come to understand how pervasive abuse is within Shambhala? Was there a specific encounter, or did the growing evidence erode any doubt over time?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
9 points
·
18 hours ago
About the time that I had three women, unrelated, saying the same thing, pointing to the same pattern, then I knew that there was something there, it wasn’t random. I also know, if I have three women who are willing to come forward and talk to me, that there are many more that have not and will not. Estimates that I have read are that only 20% of sexual assaults are reported. So, absolutely, growing evidence erodes doubt but I will say the very first woman to come forward was extremely credible in every way, so I was reasonably certain I would find something right from the start even though I had no idea then of the depth of the misconduct. When I got to the 4th woman, the Chilean woman, I absolutely knew that this was pervasive.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Cashoobutter
6 points
·
2 days ago
what impacts has this whole thing had on you as a person?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
9 points
·
18 hours ago
Wow, yes, there has been a lot of personal impact from this particular project. One positive thing is that I have learned so much about the issues of trauma and dealing with people who are working with trauma. I think that has made me an actual better person.
On the negative side, I worried a lot. I was frightened a lot. My stomach was tied up in knots a lot. I felt like a soldier on the front lines of an army without weapons. I lost friends. But I made more than I lost, I think.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Cashoobutter
6 points
·
2 days ago
what propelled you to exert your expertise as a volunteer and would you do it again now that you know the organization has no interest in the ordinary course of such investigations (thoroughness, accountability, change) but just mainly spin control?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
7 points
·
18 hours ago
Some very insightful person here, NOQOL-RII, asked me a question about the books I thought had made me as person and thinking about my childhood reading reminds me that I have always been propelled by injustice. And if you add in silencing, I am unable to stop myself. When we refuse to listen and acknowledge the stories that these women were trying to tell, or were too frightened to tell, we take away every bit of their power. That is a horrible injustice. The thing that propelled me daily was that I had the opportunity to tell their stories.
Would I do it again? Yes. Despite the Shambhala spin control, or whatever it is that they are doing, I would do it again. I learned a long time ago that it is all about process not goal. I focus on the process. I don’t have any control over what Shambhala ultimately does. I can only do what I know how to do. And that is to tell you what I think happened so that you can choose what you want to do. Then, we can try to persuade them to take a different approach but ultimately we may not be able to change their direction.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
DismalPerformance
3 points
·
2 days ago
Are you related to Robert Merchasin who had a intense history with CTR, and I assume had strong feeling towards the Sakyong whether positive or negative before all this came out. His name is on the list of early financial backers of the Sunshine Project. In other words, did you have a dog in this fight prior to getting in bed with Andrea?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
10 points
·
18 hours ago
The short answer is no, I did not have a “dog in this fight” before I “got into bed with Andrea.” In other words, “that dog don’t hunt.” (Are there extra points on Reddit for odd idiomatic phrases?)
The longer answer is for me to respond to what you have said and fill in with some additional facts that may help.
Yes, Robert and I are related. We got married in Michael Root’s back yard in 1983. He was a sangha member and I was an agnostic -- a lapsed Methodist. I did 5 levels of Shambhala training. I loved the teachings, but I was not temperamentally suited for either Vajradhatu or Shambhala.
I am not sure exactly what you mean by “intense history” with CTR so let me say that Robert was asked to leave the community after a (his words) “serious misunderstanding on Robert’s part” with CTR in the early 1970s and then he was invited back by CTR about 2 years later. Is that the meaning of “intense history?” If so, yes. He came back into the sangha serving as a kusung to CTR and occasionally for the Sakyong for another 12+ years.
Yes, Robert had strong feelings (positive) toward the Sakyong but Robert left the community in 1985 for a variety of complicated reasons, not having one thing to do with the Sakyong. Between 1985 and 2018, Robert had some practice-related encounters with him but these were quite limited. After we moved to Mexico in 2005, we extended our hospitality to Shambhala teachers who came our way providing housing for Allyn Lyon and Richard John. All of this is by way of saying, that Robert always had a positive connection with the Sakyong but it was not a strong connection.
Yes, Robert gave a donation to BPS. He has also over the last ten years, given many times that amount to Shambhala, and until this past year, he had a provision to leave money to Shambhala International in his will. I did not give BPS any money because I preferred to donate my time. Robert and I often do our charitable giving separately.
I think this next thing might help further answer. Robert wrote a letter to Andrea Winn on April 25, 2018 which was printed on her website the next day. It expresses why he gave the money and why he supported both Andrea and my efforts.
April 25, 2018
Dear Andrea,
I’m writing to express my concerns about allegations of sexual and other mis-conduct within the Shambhala mandala; about the Sakyong’s recent indirect, tepid response; and about allegations that reports of mis-conduct have been criticized, ignored or silenced by Shambhala International leadership. I was an early student of the Vidyadhara, whom I served as both a craftsman and a Kusung; I also served the Sakyong in the 1980’s. During those years, by the way, I was friends with your mother and dad.
It is troubling for us to hear allegations of wrongdoing that place us in conflict with people we love and to whom we are deeply devoted. We also hesitate to bring public shame to an organization we want to protect. However, there is no escape from our karma, as individuals or as an organization. Human life is marked by sharp ethical dilemmas; love and loyalty must be disciplined by right speech, right action and right livelihood.
At this point, Robert had no idea that the allegations were against the Sakyong. He gave money to BPS because he objected to the Sakyong’s “tepid” response and the silencing tactics of Shambhala International and in support of his belief that “the proclamation of the truth is fearless.” At this point, I was already two weeks into the project.
So, no, neither Robert and his “intense history” nor his positive feelings for the Sakyong were a factor in my decision to do this investigation. If Robert had had negative feelings for the Sakyong, that wouldn’t have made any difference either. The whole point was my sense that when an organization responds the way Shambhala did, there is something there to investigate and that is what I did.
I am trying to think of some good old Texas sayings like “If that ain’t a fact, God’s a possum” to bring this to a close but sadly, I think between the two of us, we have used most of them.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
DismalPerformance
3 points
·
17 hours ago
HaHaHA I can see this isn't your first rodeo. Enjoyed your detailed honesty and humor.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
thebasketofeggs
7 points
·
2 days ago
·
edited 1 day ago
Carol wanted to let everyone know she feels this is a fair question, and it should stay, word choice notwithstanding. I don’t like to delete things unless they cross a clear line. I am leaving the question and comment about word choice. I’d like to point out that attacking dismal performance is ad hominem. I’m leaving that so people know what that is. Don’t do it.
Edit: Ad hominem is a logical fallacy. It is attacking the person rather than the ideas. Facebook sometimes feels to me like 99% ad hominem. It's not that the positions have no merit. It's that the format of the short reply lends itself more to a short sassy quip. It's a culture shift moving to this format. Just say why you disagree without the jab. No jabs.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
Cashoobutter
8 points
·
2 days ago
"getting in bed with" is a poor choice of words here
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 3
Icy_Peanut
3 points
·
2 days ago
Very poor AND insulting. Dismal Performance is an apt name!!!
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
LostMeadow
7 points
·
3 days ago
Have Wickwire Holm's lawyers/employees committed any ethics violations? If so, I would like to report them to the NS ethics board.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
Five_Precepts
5 points
·
3 days ago
Carol, why is it that WH and Ms. Bath were not required to report knowledge of a CRIME in the 2002 case? Because it did not occur in Canada or US, but rather in Chile? Part 2: in your view, who should be mandated reporters in a spiritual/church organization - all meditation instructors, staff, other? Finally, was Shambhala the organization and/or its leaders negligent in not reporting crimes that they witnessed or acquired knowledge of?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
3 points
·
18 hours ago
First, lawyers are not generally mandatory reporters and the term “mandatory reporter” is usually reserved for child sexual abuse. I think for those two reasons they had no obligation to report anything. Also remember, they either didn’t investigate the Chilean assault or it did not end up in the report.
As to who should be a mandated reporter (of child sexual abuse) in a spiritual organization, that is answered differently state by state in the US. But since Shambhala may operate in quite a few states it is always wise to adhere to the most restrictive law – that means that Acharyas and Shastris could be considered mandatory reporters. if we reframe the question to ask “who should be reporting issues of sexual misconduct” (not just child sexual misconduct) I would say that anyone who is in a position of leadership should consider themselves a person that should recognize and report sexual misconduct. To me, that includes meditation instructors, staff, anyone in a position of authority. That would mirror what is required of US businesses.
As to the issue of negligence, I do not know. What I remember from the bar exam is that to prove negligence, you must show a duty of care, that was breached and that the breach caused injury. And within those few words are a gazillion lawyers saying, “It depends.” I can’t even say, “it depends.” I have to say, “I just don’t know.”
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
herojig
4 points
·
3 days ago
·
edited 2 days ago
What should an ex-cult member worry about, when he left the cult (voluntarily and seemingly organically) decades ago? I was on the court, in the Kasung, have a box full of pins (somewhere) and have lived my life happily ever since leaving N. America. I'm afraid that now that I know, I'll be haunted, or whatever else people go through with suppressed memories (guilt, anger, fear, all of that). Any advice? Thx.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
Comment removed by moderator
3 days ago
level 3
Comment removed by moderator
3 days ago
level 1
Icy_Peanut
11 points
·
3 days ago
Have you sent your final report to the Interim Board, to the Acharyas or to Process Team? Did they respond to your first report and are they going to respond now?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
5 points
·
18 hours ago
Yes, I personally sent this one to the IB and I believe the other three were sent to whoever was in power by BPS. My first report came out while the Kalapa Council was still in power. They did a large conference call which was widely reported on and then they stepped down. I have not had any contact myself with the Interim Board or their predecessors. I do not expect a response, no.
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
thebasketofeggs
5 points
·
3 days ago
Two completely separate questions:
Why and how did you get involved with Buddhist Project Sunshine?
In your opinion, what would Shambhala need to do at this point to move forward as a healthy institution?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 1
NOQOL-RII
6 points
·
3 days ago
What are the books which made you who you are?
Give Award
Share
Report
Save
level 2
CarolMerchasin
5 points
·
18 hours ago
Books that made me what I am? Such an interesting question! The first book I thought of is Viktor Frankl’s, “Man’s Search for Meaning.” Here is one of my favorite quotes: “Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances.”
But then I got thinking about books that I read when I was a child – because isn’t that when we are forming our ideas about the world around us? To your question, maybe these early books influence us to become what we are more than any others. As a child, I read all the Nancy Drew books (I still love mysteries, not just books but the actual process of finding out what happened), Girl of the Limberlost by Gene Stratton-Porter (the triumph of a young girl over her inhumane environment -- the underdog wins the day is another big part of my psyche), Steinbeck’s “The Grapes of Wrath” (I can remember where I was when I was reading it and how it profoundly influenced me with new ideas about poverty and capitalism).
